6 thoughts on “Voice from the Past: George Washington

  1. Mike

    Another lie, and easily debunked. This lie has been spreading around the Right Wing for several years, and is so loved by certain people that the lie is forever enshrined on at least one bronze memorial plaque.

    Most of that “quote” is completely made up out of thin air.

    Only the first few words were uttered by GW. His purpose was to advocate that the Congress should fund a factory to provide weapons to the army–a formally trained, disciplined and equipped standing army.

    Here is the actual quote, in context.

    “Among the many interesting objects, which will engage your attention, that of providing for the common defence will merit particular regard. To be prepared for war is one of the most effectual means of preserving peace.

    “A free people ought not only to be armed but disciplined; to which end a Uniform and well digested plan is requisite: And their safety and interest require that they should promote such manufactories, as tend to render them independent on others, for essential, particularly for military supplies.

    “The proper establishment of the Troops which may be deemed indispensable, will be entitled to mature consideration. In the arrangements which may be made respecting it, it will be of importance to conciliate the comfortable support of the Officers and Soldiers with a due regard to economy.”

    WHEN WEBSITES SPREAD LIES, it affects how people vote, how politicians make laws, and how presidents and generals spend our money. Deliberate lies like this one sent us into Vietnam and Iraq, costing trillions of dollars and millions of lives, eliminating peace and prosperity for several generations.

    Reply
  2. Mark

    Mike,

    Even a broken Leftist clock is right twice a day!

    The quote from Washington (and there are other common quotes from others) has words out of context taken from a State of the Union speech. However, your last paragraph is a unfounded insult as this Washington quote is commonly misquoted in many places.

    As the intent of the thread is the 2nd Amendment (what has that to do with Nam & Iraq…come on man that is a silly stretch). Here are some on topic quotes for you to chew on:

    WARNING—THESE WORD AND OPINIONS ARE NOT PC AND WILL UPSET THE TIDE POD EATERS WHO WANT TO BURN THE CONSTITUTION!

    GUN QUOTATIONS OF THE FOUNDING FATHERS

    1. “A free people ought not only to be armed, but disciplined…”
    – George Washington, First Annual Address, to both House of Congress, January 8, 1790

    2. “No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, Virginia Constitution, Draft 1, 1776

    “I prefer dangerous freedom over peaceful slavery.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, January 30, 1787

    3. “What country can preserve its liberties if their rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance. Let them take arms.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, letter to James Madison, December 20, 1787

    4. “The laws that forbid the carrying of arms are laws of such a nature. They disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes…. Such laws make things worse for the assaulted and better for the assailants; they serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, Commonplace Book (quoting 18th century criminologist Cesare Beccaria), 1774-1776

    5. “A strong body makes the mind strong. As to the species of exercises, I advise the gun. While this gives moderate exercise to the body, it gives boldness, enterprise and independence to the mind. Games played with the ball, and others of that nature, are too violent for the body and stamp no character on the mind. Let your gun therefore be your constant companion of your walks.” – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Peter Carr, August 19, 1785

    6. “The Constitution of most of our states (and of the United States) assert that all power is inherent in the people; that they may exercise it by themselves; that it is their right and duty to be at all times armed.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, letter to to John Cartwright, 5 June 1824

    7. “On every occasion [of Constitutional interpretation] let us carry ourselves back to the time when the Constitution was adopted, recollect the spirit manifested in the debates, and instead of trying [to force] what meaning may be squeezed out of the text, or invented against it, [instead let us] conform to the probable one in which it was passed.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Johnson, 12 June 1823

    8. “I enclose you a list of the killed, wounded, and captives of the enemy from the commencement of hostilities at Lexington in April, 1775, until November, 1777, since which there has been no event of any consequence … I think that upon the whole it has been about one half the number lost by them, in some instances more, but in others less. This difference is ascribed to our superiority in taking aim when we fire; every soldier in our army having been intimate with his gun from his infancy.”
    – Thomas Jefferson, letter to Giovanni Fabbroni, June 8, 1778

    9. “They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty nor safety.”
    – Benjamin Franklin, Historical Review of Pennsylvania, 1759

    10. “To disarm the people…[i]s the most effectual way to enslave them.”
    – George Mason, referencing advice given to the British Parliament by Pennsylvania governor Sir William Keith, The Debates in the Several State Conventions on the Adooption of the Federal Constitution, June 14, 1788

    11. “I ask who are the militia? They consist now of the whole people, except a few public officers.”
    – George Mason, Address to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 4, 1788

    12. “Before a standing army can rule, the people must be disarmed, as they are in almost every country in Europe. The supreme power in America cannot enforce unjust laws by the sword; because the whole body of the people are armed, and constitute a force superior to any band of regular troops.”
    – Noah Webster, An Examination of the Leading Principles of the Federal Constitution, October 10, 1787

    13. “Besides the advantage of being armed, which the Americans possess over the people of almost every other nation, the existence of subordinate governments, to which the people are attached, and by which the militia officers are appointed, forms a barrier against the enterprises of ambition, more insurmountable than any which a simple government of any form can admit of.”
    – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

    14. “The right of the people to keep and bear arms shall not be infringed. A well regulated militia, composed of the body of the people, trained to arms, is the best and most natural defense of a free country.”
    – James Madison, I Annals of Congress 434, June 8, 1789

    15. “…the ultimate authority, wherever the derivative may be found, resides in the people alone…”
    – James Madison, Federalist No. 46, January 29, 1788

    16. “Necessity is the plea for every infringement of human freedom. It is the argument of tyrants; it is the creed of slaves.”
    – William Pitt (the Younger), Speech in the House of Commons, November 18, 1783

    17. “A militia when properly formed are in fact the people themselves…and include, according to the past and general usuage of the states, all men capable of bearing arms… “To preserve liberty, it is essential that the whole body of the people always possess arms, and be taught alike, especially when young, how to use them.”
    – Richard Henry Lee, Federal Farmer No. 18, January 25, 1788

    18. “Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined…. The great object is that every man be armed. Everyone who is able might have a gun.”
    – Patrick Henry, Speech to the Virginia Ratifying Convention, June 5, 1778

    19.”This may be considered as the true palladium of liberty…. The right of self defense is the first law of nature: in most governments it has been the study of rulers to confine this right within the narrowest limits possible. Wherever standing armies are kept up, and the right of the people to keep and bear arms is, under any color or pretext whatsoever, prohibited, liberty, if not already annihilated, is on the brink of destruction.”
    – St. George Tucker, Blackstone’s Commentaries on the Laws of England, 1803

    20. “The supposed quietude of a good man allures the ruffian; while on the other hand, arms, like law, discourage and keep the invader and the plunderer in awe, and preserve order in the world as well as property. The balance of power is the scale of peace. The same balance would be preserved were all the world destitute of arms, for all would be alike; but since some will not, others dare not lay them aside. And while a single nation refuses to lay them down, it is proper that all should keep them up. Horrid mischief would ensue were one-half the world deprived of the use of them; for while avarice and ambition have a place in the heart of man, the weak will become a prey to the strong. The history of every age and nation establishes these truths, and facts need but little arguments when they prove themselves.”
    – Thomas Paine, “Thoughts on Defensive War” in Pennsylvania Magazine, July 1775

    21. “The Constitution shall never be construed to prevent the people of the United States who are peaceable citizens from keeping their own arms.”
    – Samuel Adams, Massachusetts Ratifying Convention, 1788

    22. “The right of the citizens to keep and bear arms has justly been considered, as the palladium of the liberties of a republic; since it offers a strong moral check against the usurpation and arbitrary power of rulers; and will generally, even if these are successful in the first instance, enable the people to resist and triumph over them.”
    – Joseph Story, Commentaries on the Constitution of the United States, 1833

    23.”What, Sir, is the use of a militia? It is to prevent the establishment of a standing army, the bane of liberty …. Whenever Governments mean to invade the rights and liberties of the people, they always attempt to destroy the militia, in order to raise an army upon their ruins.”
    – Rep. Elbridge Gerry of Massachusetts, I Annals of Congress 750, August 17, 1789

    24. “For it is a truth, which the experience of ages has attested, that the people are always most in danger when the means of injuring their rights are in the possession of those of whom they entertain the least suspicion.”
    – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 25, December 21, 1787

    25. “If the representatives of the people betray their constituents, there is then no resource left but in the exertion of that original right of self-defense which is paramount to all positive forms of government, and which against the usurpations of the national rulers, may be exerted with infinitely better prospect of success than against those of the rulers of an individual state. In a single state, if the persons intrusted with supreme power become usurpers, the different parcels, subdivisions, or districts of which it consists, having no distinct government in each, can take no regular measures for defense. The citizens must rush tumultuously to arms, without concert, without system, without resource; except in their courage and despair.”
    – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28

    26. “[I]f circumstances should at any time oblige the government to form an army of any magnitude that army can never be formidable to the liberties of the people while there is a large body of citizens, little, if at all, inferior to them in discipline and the use of arms, who stand ready to defend their own rights and those of their fellow-citizens. This appears to me the only substitute that can be devised for a standing army, and the best possible security against it, if it should exist.”
    – Alexander Hamilton, Federalist No. 28, January 10, 1788

    27. “As civil rulers, not having their duty to the people before them, may attempt to tyrannize, and as the military forces which must be occasionally raised to defend our country, might pervert their power to the injury of their fellow citizens, the people are confirmed by the article in their right to keep and bear their private arms.”
    – Tench Coxe, Philadelphia Federal Gazette, June 18, 1789

    Mike, please let us know if any of these quotes started the Vietnam and Iraq wars?

    Reply
  3. Mike

    Mark, my last paragraph was perfectly clear. When websites spread lies, then voters and politicians believe them, and we have started wars over lies. Millions have died as the victims of American wars that were started and continued based on lies.

    I’m sure you’re aware that the devastation of Vietnam was started with a convenient lie. When our ship’s commander in the Gulf of Tonkin reported that the second attack might not have actually happened (it didn’t), McNamara withheld that truth from the president as LBJ and advisers were debating whether to commit thousands of troops and all our ships and bombers to the war. That resulted in millions dead and many more still dying from UXOs and chemical cancer.

    And I think we’re all pretty clear that Bush II’s lies about WMD and Saddam’s supposed support of Al Qaeda persuaded America to unleash our killing machine in Iraq. We imprisoned over 100,000 Iraqis, killed another 100,000, and made millions homeless. That resulted in ISIS transforming from a couple of guys to a major warfighting organization, recruited, trained, and motivated in the American prison in Camp Bucca.

    You said the Geo Washinton quote was out of context. No. It was COMPLETELY MADE UP.

    You said my last graf was an insult. Not intended. However you might have felt it, I gave no intentional insult. I presented the truth. Lies kill.

    The gun debate in general is a worthy debate. Lies (and not fact-checking) are not needed. Or maybe they are! Does the author, editor, and owner of the website need people to believe lies, in order for their words to win the day?

    Reply
  4. Mark

    Mike,

    Let me respond to your issues in chronological order. You will never have to worry about me not responding to you…point by point…scroll down you however you have not responded at all to “many” of my posts in direct contradiction to and with challenges to points you have raised.

    Many times all I get back from you is just the sound of crickets???

    The Washington quote that was run was in error. It appeared as far as I know for the very first time on this crackerjack blog, you were right about it. However, it has been all over the net in that format. I found it in a number of other sites. Researching it I also found other Founding Father quotes that are not true that I bookmarked. Who knows who started them? When it comes to the internet…buyer beware.

    However, here are three of George Washington’s pro 2nd Amendment quotes and their source:

    1. “Firearms stand next in importance to the Constitution itself.” (Yep, if you want to keep the Constitution).

    2. “A free people ought…to be armed.” (Muskets in 1776 – ARs in 2018)

    3. “The Constitution is the guide which I never will abandon.” (Of course that also covers the 2nd Amendment).

    I also like this Washington quote below as it implies future 2nd Amendment violation and to me also covers the too many decisions of activist liberal judges used so successfully against U.S. since the 60’s by the Left…but I digress.

    4. “But if the laws are to be so trampled upon with impunity, and a minority is to dictate to the majority, there is an end put at one stroke to republican government, and nothing but anarchy and confusion is to be expected thereafter.”

    SOURCE: http://www.azquotes.com/author/15324-George_Washington
    Washington’s obvious Christian Faith shines a bright light.

    Just for grins here are more wrong Conservative quotes I ran across and bookmarked:
    http://www.fortliberty.org/please-stop-posting-these-fake-quotes.html

    You threw a lot of spaghetti against the wall I’ll peel off as much as I can:

    1. “Websites spreading lies…starting wars over lies…hence millions of victims.”

    Please tell me you are not talking about websites with any particular political viewpoint and mean the internet is general? As no one has a monopoly on truth on the internet.

    2. VIETNAM AND THE GULF OF TONKIN: Because I’m a Nam Vet please don’t expect me to defend The Kennedy Wiz Kids or one of the worst “Liberal” presidents in my life time, LYNDON “Guns and Butter Gawd Awful Society” JOHNSON or the Gulf of Tonkin incident. Somewhere in-between 1/4th to 1/3rd of my grunt company is on the Wall in DC. My feelings about the Vietnam War are wide and deep but having nothing to do with any website or George Washington miss-quote or the pack of 60’s Liberal Democrats that fed us into the meat grinder with no strategy to win quickly and decidedly.

    If you want to debate Nam bring it on!

    3. Bush and WMD and the Iraqi War: Because I’m a Constitutional Conservative please don’t expect me to defend either of the Bushes, especially read my lips NWO George senior or sped thrift W or any of the NeoCons or Chicken Hawks on any foreign policy issue. If you want to get into a discussion on what we should have done after 9-11 (I despise the TSA and most of the Patriot Act) that is another discussion.

    Bring it on!

    4. GUN CONTROL; That is the meat and potatoes of this thread not all the spaghetti you listed. All my other posts speak for themselves on Gun (PEOPLE) Control.

    Mike please read this link carefully, much insight to be gleaned for you:
    https://www.pinterest.com/lindamariuz/liberal-stupidity-lies-and-liars/

    Last but not least Mike remember this direct quote:

    A free people ought not only be armed they should have the most modern battle and assault rifles of the day, own plenty of magazines, ammo and fighting gear and be disciplined to ensure a status of independence from any who might attempt to abuse them, which would include their own government and all enemies both foreign globalists and especially the domestic RADICAL LEFT.
    Mark 2018

    Reply
  5. Mike

    Crickets? Yeah. I just don’t have the time, so I don’t have notifications turned on. I log in here with little urgency.

    We agree and disagree in some ways. So more rambling:

    Just to add some facts. 42 pct of households have a gun. A third of them have 5 or more guns. 80 pct of Americans think the 2A is important. The difference is mostly location: City folk have bad experiences with guns. Country boys love ‘em. GOP likes guns twice as much as Dems.

    “VIETNAM Liberal Democrats..fed us into the meat grinder”

    I remember that it was the hippies who started the anti-war peace-love-incense movements. Conservatives like Paul Harvey insisted on continuing the VN war. (More recently, he suggested we should launch nuclear missiles toward Afghanistan instead of sending ground troops.)

    Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, and LBJ are, we’ll agree, most responsible for starting and escalating the war. Nixon extended the war, intensified and expanded it illegally, then bit the bullet, accepting the fact that the only way to get out was simply to leave.

    Aside, about the Right’s constant use of the trope, “Leftist Liberal Democrats have always…”

    BOTH parties had both liberals and conservatives back in those days. The original Republican president, Honest Abe, effected the most liberal of policies—freeing the slaves. Eisenhower, known as a moderate, had liberal moments. Do you fault JFK’s liberal mentality? Is LBJ’s Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act to be derided as radical Leftism?

    Nixon’s Southern Strategy exploited the racism of the southern conservative Democrats to move them from being Dixie Democrats to the GOP. Remember that the Deep South used to be filled with conservative Democrats. Many of the sheriffs and mayors were klan, and the KKK was the paramilitary arm of the Dem Party in the South.

    Then Reagan used latent and simmering racism to complete the South’s transition to the GOP. And now today, we see the KKK, Nazis, and other racist terrorist murdering organizations supporting and voting for the GOP’s Trump!

    I ask pro-Trump people: “How’s it feel to know you’re on the same bus as those criminals?”

    We agree that Bush’s response to 9-11 was wrong. ‘Nuff said.

    “Mike please read this link carefully, much insight to be gleaned for you:
    https://www.pinterest.com/lindamariuz/liberal-stupidity-lies-and-liars/”

    OK. I saw it. Lots of bumper sticker philosophy, lies, and distortions just meant to facilitate hating.

    Reply
  6. Mark

    If you are going to throw this much spaghetti again…I have to answer it strand by strand:

    1. Just to add some facts. 42 pct of households have a gun. A third of them have 5 or more guns. 80 pct of Americans think the 2A is important. The difference is mostly location: City folk have bad experiences with guns. Country boys love ‘em. GOP likes guns twice as much as Dems.

    ANSWER: http://www.pewsocialtrends.org/2017/06/22/the-demographics-of-gun-ownership/

    This is the best link on the net on various gun demographics. It has 8 tabs. Seems comprehensive.

    I was raised in a blue bubble city in a home that never had a gun by a lifelong Democrat (until Reagan). I self-sorted to red rural and treasure a completely unfettered 2nd Amendment. I protect my life with a concealed handgun, my home with a shotgun and my freedom and liberty with a AR, magazines, gear, and a back pocket copy of the Constitution.

    2. “VIETNAM Liberal Democrats..fed us into the meat grinder” I remember that it was the hippies who started the anti-war peace-love-incense movements. Conservatives like Paul Harvey insisted on continuing the VN war. (More recently, he suggested we should launch nuclear missiles toward Afghanistan instead of sending ground troops.)

    Truman, Eisenhower, JFK, and LBJ are, we’ll agree, most responsible for starting and escalating the war. Nixon extended the war, intensified and expanded it illegally, then bit the bullet, accepting the fact that the only way to get out was simply to leave.

    ANSWER: Vietnam was a hot battle within the context of the Cold War. The first American was killed in 1959 and the last in 1975, 58,169 Americans died and hundreds of thousands were wounded and maimed. Johnson ran it up while he micro managed the war politically and militarily, convinced he could force North Vietnam to negotiate peace by attrition and by grinding them down. HE NEVER INTENDED A MILITARY VICTORY deciding against decisive war ending action time and time again. He was wrong and eventually decided to not run again for President. Nixon took over with a strategy of Vietnamization in 1969…pulling us out over five years but still supporting the South with air power, advisers, and eventually minimum ground troops. A slow Peace with Honor feed into the meat grinder…just at a diminishing rate of grind.

    In the book Deliration of Duty H. R. McMaster contends: “The war in Vietnam was not lost in the field, nor was it lost on the front pages of the New York Times or the college campuses. It was lost in Washington, D.C.” President Lyndon Johnson, Robert McNamara, General Maxwell Taylor, McGeorge Bundy and other top aides who deliberately deceived the Joint Chiefs of Staff, the U.S. Congress and the American public were to blame.

    Personally: I believe the government betrayed those who fought, bled, killed, were wounded, were maimed for life and especially all who died. We were fed into a human meat grinder in a land war in Asia for over 16 years, a place where human life meant less than a warm can of beer and yesterday’s newspaper to our enemies. We were also betrayed by many in the media, in Hollywood, in collages, and by too many Americans who dishonored our service and sacrifice for answering the call.

    If you want to truly understand this point of view (with 45 pages of Endnotes backing up the author’s contentions on why the war was lost) read the nonfiction book: “This Time We Win” by James S. Robbins.

    If you want to truly understand the Vietnam War from a Grunt’s point of view read the excellent novel “Matterhorn” by Karl Marlantes. A graduate of Yale, a Rhodes Scholar but more importantly A Nam Vet awarded the Navy Cross, the Bronze Star, Two Navy Commendations medals and two Purple Hearts. On page 389 the 2nd paragraph contains the epitaph of the War from a Grunts point of view. I know that epitaph is true because I lived it.

    3. Aside, about the Right’s constant use of the trope, “Leftist Liberal Democrats have always…”
    BOTH parties had both liberals and conservatives back in those days. The original Republican president, Honest Abe, effected the most liberal of policies—freeing the slaves. Eisenhower, known as a moderate, had liberal moments. Do you fault JFK’s liberal mentality? Is LBJ’s Civil Rights Act and Voting Rights Act to be derided as radical Leftism?

    Nixon’s Southern Strategy exploited the racism of the southern conservative Democrats to move them from being Dixie Democrats to the GOP. Remember that the Deep South used to be filled with conservative Democrats. Many of the sheriffs and mayors were klan, and the KKK was the paramilitary arm of the Dem Party in the South.

    Then Reagan used latent and simmering racism to complete the South’s transition to the GOP. And now today, we see the KKK, Nazis, and other racist terrorist murdering organizations supporting and voting for the GOP’s Trump!

    ANSWER: I don’t fault JFK anything except one fatal misjudgment…after he announced he was going to downsize the CIA because of the Bay of Pigs disaster, then after he signed Executive Order 11110 and took on the greatest enemy in our history the FED and the international Central banksters…I fault him for not realizing he had spoken and signed his own death warrant.

    I’ll not defend tricky Dicky on anything especially after what he did turning over our wealth to the Deep State Banksters in 1971.

    4. I ask pro-Trump people: “How’s it feel to know you’re on the same bus as those criminals?”

    ANSWER: First that is total BS…the Orange Wild Card coalition’s blue collar has a lot of Blue Wall rust stains. Second, I jumped on the Trump train as the caboose went flying past me. Second the only bus I’m on (politically) is the Constitution Bus…and guess what Mike…nobody has to go to the back of the bus…because all the passengers are armed to the teeth!

    5. “Mike please read this link carefully, much insight to be gleaned for you:

    https://www.pinterest.com/lindamariuz/liberal-stupidity-lies-and-liars/” OK. I saw it. Lots of bumper sticker philosophy, lies, and distortions just meant to facilitate hating.

    ANSWER: Hating??? The last word of your post towards someone on the Right is HATING? The Liberal umbrella word for any view outside theirs…that’s so predictable…so much a yada, yada, yada, Liberal talking point… that stuff in the link was hilarious…light’en up Mikey…me thinks thou protests too much…about the HATE petard.

    Reply

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *